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Sparky
Posts:143
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| 10/01/2008 6:41 PM |
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<a href=http://http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081002/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown/>$700B passes senate</a> |
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Sparky
Posts:143
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Sparky
Posts:143
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jpinpb
Posts:1450
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| 10/01/2008 7:16 PM |
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| Sad. But maybe now the banks will unleash their inventory. |
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ElPato
Posts:350
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| 10/01/2008 7:28 PM |
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| This is a very sad day in American history. |
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Brian
Posts:2210
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| 10/01/2008 7:33 PM |
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| let's hope the House rejects the bill. |
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airplanedad
Posts:131
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| 10/01/2008 7:42 PM |
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more comic relief:
I heard this on NPR today:
Kai Ryssdal: We read you some of our letters yesterday. Just a small sampling of the loads of e-mail we've gotten from people who're really angry about this bailout or rescue package or call it what you will.
What's not so clear to many more of you is exactly how we got here in the first place. Investigations into this crisis are beginning to show that when it came to the exotic securities at the heart of the credit freeze, not even the experts -- people who were doing the buying and selling -- really knew what they were getting into. So, we asked the Marketplace Players for a refresher.
Seller: [sound of door opening] All right. So glad to hear the Union of Mothers and Nurses Pension Fund is keen to invest with us, Mr. Moron.
Buyer: Actually, That's Mah-RONE.
Seller: Oh, do pardon me.
Buyer: Happens all the time. Now, we really took a hit when Lead Paint Toyco went under, so we'd like some big, quick returns here.
Seller: Then have I got the product for you. It's called a reverse sub-micro-standard mortgage shadow security and -- do you hold a degree in rocket science?
Buyer: Nope.
Seller: Hmm. Well then, simply put, what we do is take semi-insured debts that've been sold to us from inelastic bubble markets, vertically resell, then unbundle the revenues according to Moody's astro-logarithm.
Buyer: Astro ...
Seller: Astro-logarithm, which gives a monetized valuation that has itself been subdivided into A-3 and G-minus pumpkin patch. You following?
Buyer: Not at all!
Seller: Great; me neither, really! This thing was invented by some eggheads we keep in a cave.
Buyer: Please, continue.
Seller: Right. So, I think the Q-grades are dumped and leveraged upwards across 25 underplummeries? Our unicorn gives it a kick, and presto: you've got 300 percent annual growth.
Buyer: Now, you just said "unicorn." There is such a thing?
Seller: Uhhh. Kind of? Honestly, I don't know. Don't care!
Buyer: Well, you also said "300 percent." So, I'm sold!
Seller: OK! How much you want?
Buyer: How about far more than we can afford?
Seller: [HIGH VOICE] Sweet.
Buyer: Great doing business with you, Mr. Exploiter.
Seller: Actually, that's Ex-PLAH-tee-ay.
Buyer: Whatevs! |
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wilson
Posts:541
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| 10/01/2008 7:42 PM |
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| hooooooooooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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UnsureBuyer
Posts:211
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| 10/01/2008 7:56 PM |
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| THE SKY IS FALLING! |
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jpinpb
Posts:1450
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| 10/01/2008 8:03 PM |
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| airplanedad - I wasn't listening to Marketplace today, so thanks for posting that. Got a good laugh out of me, despite the news. |
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wilson
Posts:541
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| 10/01/2008 8:05 PM |
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There you go taking my line again!
I would have used that line, but I thought "Hoooooray!" might get a bigger reaction.
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Sparky
Posts:143
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| 10/01/2008 8:20 PM |
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I view the bailout as the lesser of 2 evils. Without it, from what I've read the effects on our society would be catastrophic. Yes, the bailout seems unfair to some, but many can argue that other parts of the US tax structure are unfair as well. For instance, consider the funding of public education using proceeds collected from property taxes. There are many homeowners (singles, gay couples, hetero couples, the retired) who do not have children in public schools, yet the property they own is taxed to pay for the education of their neighbor's children. It is of the belief that public education benefits society. And I hope that the bailout will somehow benefit society by averting a crisis beyond what we have ever witnessed before.
I wish we could isolate the wrong-doers and allow them to fail one by one. They DO need to learn a valuable lesson that can only be taught by experiencing adversity. But the economy is too intertwined, the scope too massive, that their failing could end up crippling our society in the end, much worse than the increase in taxes for us, our children, and our grandchildren.
Lets not bite off our nose to spite our face.
JMHO
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Brian
Posts:2210
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| 10/01/2008 8:21 PM |
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Willson, I think there's quite a contradiction in your thinking.
You contended that there's too much of "the sky is falling" and "nay-saying" but that the fundamentals are basically strong.
At least according to Paulson, don't we need this bailout because the sky is actually falling?
Yet you support the bailout, otherwise, the sky will fall.
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BigTrace
Posts:194
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| 10/01/2008 8:27 PM |
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| I'm stunned.. Media reports that 90% of people didn't want the bailout until Monday when Stocks tanked 778, then rebounds Tuesday almost 500 and now they say people are 50/50?? Media claims more people are calling and writing saying they want something done now?? can anyone say "Media Manipulation"?. They want people to think others are ok with this so why shouldn't you be?? The day this fully passes will be one of the worst days in the history of this country.. |
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jpinpb
Posts:1450
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| 10/01/2008 8:30 PM |
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Additions to bill
I'm particularly pleased with this one"
"Also part of the tax package is a measure, long sought by mental health advocates, that would give parity to benefits for mental health treatment."
Since this bill is making me angry and crazy, maybe now I can get that anger-management treatment. |
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BigTrace
Posts:194
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| 10/01/2008 8:36 PM |
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[quote]Posted By Sparky on 10/01/2008 8:20 PM
I view the bailout as the lesser of 2 evils. Without it, from what I've read the effects on our society would be catastrophic. Yes, the bailout seems unfair to some, but many can argue that other parts of the US tax structure are unfair as well. For instance, consider the funding of public education using proceeds collected from property taxes. There are many homeowners (singles, gay couples, hetero couples, the retired) who do not have children in public schools, yet the property they own is taxed to pay for the education of their neighbor's children. It is of the belief that public education benefits society. And I hope that the bailout will somehow benefit society by averting a crisis beyond what we have ever witnessed before.
I wish we could isolate the wrong-doers and allow them to fail one by one. They [b]DO[/b] need to learn a valuable lesson that can only be taught by experiencing adversity. But the economy is too intertwined, the scope too massive, that their failing could end up crippling our society in the end, much worse than the increase in taxes for us, our children, and our grandchildren.
Lets not bite off our nose to spite our face.
JMHO
Sparky[/quote]
Sparky, exactly how "catastophic" do you think things will be without it? The media, the President, congress, the banks will ALL have you believe a catastophe is eminent. But is it really?? When AIG went under and congress rushed to give them 85 billion, did that affect you?? Fannie, Freddie ?? They want you to drink this cool-aid because they want you, your kids, your grandkids and your grandkids kids to be OK with eventually paying for it. |
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jpinpb
Posts:1450
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| 10/01/2008 8:40 PM |
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| I am still seeing loans made, ridiculous loans being made on overpriced houses, make that shacks. There is no problems with banks lending. They just don't want to eat it on these foreclosures. But if they can make you think that no bank will loan again, well, then, I guess people won't mind a 700 Billion ++ bailout, for everyone's good, of course. /end sarcasm (in case it wasn't obvious) |
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jpinpb
Posts:1450
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| 10/01/2008 8:48 PM |
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According to Mr. Mortgage 700 Billion won't cut it.
"700bb will not go too far. Below is a custom chart of loan defaults from all lenders for the State of CA from Jan 2007 to present. CA represents about 40% of the total dollar volume in the nation.
As you can see defaults have leveled off in the summer at record high levels, which is not surprising due to seasonality, hope and the transition out of Subprime into other grades of paper. What you see below is primarily only the ‘Subprime Implosion’. However, the numbers are still near $20bb per month. This means the numbers are closer to $40-$50bb on a national level"
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"If defaults remain at roughly $20bb per month in CA and $50bb nationally and this new $700bb bailout is suppose to clean up banks past troubles, what is left for the potential $1tt in current defaults coming over the next two years? This plan is being debated today in Washington as if mortgage and housing crisis was over and they are trying to clean up the aftermath. I am sure many there really think this is about the real estate market.
Perhaps this program will grease the wheels, everyone will begin lending again and home values will soar making it so home owners can freely sell or refinance. But given the data I see daily, I am betting against that. The problem is, anything short of physical real estate being a liquid asset once again or an across the board principal balance reduction and new terms on every loan in America, and the housing crisis remain front pages indefinitely as the negative equity feedback loop continues and more borrowers are forced into loan default each month." |
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BigTrace
Posts:194
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| 10/01/2008 8:49 PM |
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[quote]Posted By jpinpb on 10/01/2008 8:30 PM
<a href="http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20081001-1358-meltdown-taxbreaks.html">Additions to bill</a>
I'm particularly pleased with this one"
"Also part of the tax package is a measure, long sought by mental health advocates, that would give parity to benefits for mental health treatment."
Since this bill is making me angry and crazy, maybe now I can get that anger-management treatment.[/quote]
Maybe I can go get reckless with my business, spend all the money, declare bankruptcy and have the gov't bail me out too. I'm going to need those mental health beni's after this.
Let just throw in the kitchen sink too, how about a R&D project on the affects of seal $hit in our ocean waters...... can we find anything else to spend the money we don't have on?? |
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Jack**
Posts:74
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| 10/01/2008 9:01 PM |
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Shouldn't Mr. Mortgage deduct from his $20B the money banks will recoup when REO's are sold?
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