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TREZ63
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| 10/01/2007 12:25 PM |
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Yeah I think most people are missing the point. Anon and myself are not saying it's not better to own than rent. We're just saying right now that's the case. Of course!! if renting cost more than owning you'd be silly to rent. But as he points out, in a market that yields negative cap rates on rental property, it's a renter's market. $3200/mo (my current rent) wouldn't buy me anything even in the same league of what I get to live in right now. I'd have to pay 3 times that in mortgage to come even close. If you think $3200 is a lot for rent then you don't have the same living standards I do, that's all. You've been fed a lie about home ownership which just isn't true. At the end of the year, if it cost you more than 10% more to own a home rather than rent a comparable place (with even a 15% credit towards the home buyer for appreciation and tax credit) then you should be renting. End of story. You're fooling yourself if you think most Home owners paying that loan off. Most people are in the same exact boat. Only point you might have is if you consider the declining value of the dollar in which case we are all hurting equally.
They saw 20-30% returns on real estate investment. They bought a heavily overinflated home they couldn't afford with a teaser rate loan hoping to flip it within 5 years. Well the boom only lasted about 6 years and unless you timed it right you're now screwed. It's not like I need any more evidence, in most of your cases I'm preaching to the choir here. I have a real estate broker's license myself and I haven't sold a house in 3 months. I used to sell 2-3 each month (very low volume). Oh well, it never was my primary source of income and it never will be.
In Irvine, in the same neighborhood, you'll find identical plans for $850K and for $650K, and none of them are selling. That is a VERY dangerous sign. It basically tells me that people are selling for what they owe, not for what they want. These are people with $130K average income burrowing $850K !!! That is insane! |
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TREZ63
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| 10/01/2007 12:29 PM |
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Posted By n/a on 10/01/2007 12:23 PM
Us renters here should be a little more honest in comparing cost of renting to cost of owning. Yes condo owners have HOA and insurance and tax. But renters who are smart also have renter's insurance, and when things go wrong with their units they sometimes have to wrangle with a landlord for weeks or months or sometimes go to court over it. We've all heard the horror stories about that. A responsive HOA can fix things more quickly. Just asking for a little honesty here folks, that's all.
What are you crazy? I have never paid a penny towards repairs as a renter and it always gets done immediately.
On the flip side, I own a tri-plex in the desert that costs me a lot of money each year in upkeep. You want honesty? Why not tell us about the PITA it is to deal with your association each time you want to install a sattelite dish.
Oh and when I don't like a place/neighbor/anything I just pack up and move. you're tied to the land.
Again, not saying I wouldn't rather own, but only if the $$$ makes sense. |
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Anonymous
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| 10/01/2007 12:36 PM |
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"If there are no obligations to buy once you win the bid, then the auction is meaningless."
No obligations to buy, and DR has no obligation to sell. They can call it an auction, but it's not. It's purely a sales gimmick.
I also doubt Guest 11:08 ever actually wanted to buy the property. He probably accidentally ended up with one he was just bidding up. What a jackass. These auctions are such a sham.
It's going to very interesting to see how many of these actually close for the final bid. Thanks Chuck for posting the results. |
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Renter
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| 10/01/2007 12:52 PM |
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| Well n/a you're just showing your own selfishness because we all know that, despite your good fortune, there are many, many renters out there who have had a devil of a time with lousy landlords regarding proper upkeep of their places. The word slumlord didn't come into our language for no reason at all. |
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downtown dude
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| 10/01/2007 12:58 PM |
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Posted By n/a on 10/01/2007 12:23 PM
Us renters here should be a little more honest in comparing cost of renting to cost of owning. Yes condo owners have HOA and insurance and tax. But renters who are smart also have renter's insurance, and when things go wrong with their units they sometimes have to wrangle with a landlord for weeks or months or sometimes go to court over it. We've all heard the horror stories about that. A responsive HOA can fix things more quickly. Just asking for a little honesty here folks, that's all.
Wow, I haven't been dishonest in the least bit. First, I've been renting for the last 10 years, and have never had a problem getting a landlord to promptly fix something. That's the norm -- sure there are horror stories of going to court, just like with anything else in life, including being a home-owner.
Second, when I lived in apartment communities, I actually found their on-site full-time staff to respond quicker than HOAs and property management companies I've dealt with. I think they're more directly accountable because if someone's unhappy enough they'll move out and they lose revenue. Just my personal experience, however I don't see how this is even relevant as I rent and also have an HOA since I'm in a condo community - big whoop.
Third, I consider myself at least average intelligence, and I don't have renter's insurance. I just don't think it's a good value. I'm conscientious and always lock up, and I've never had my home broken into or any other major problems.
Just because you disagree doesn't mean anyone's being dishonest. |
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Jon
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| 10/01/2007 12:59 PM |
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| We're not talking slums here. We're talking renting million dollar properties for what it cost to buy a starter condo. Remember, rent or own, you still have all the advantages of the HOA. |
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TREZ63
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| 10/01/2007 1:59 PM |
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I just got done telling this guy that I live in a Beautiful $1.4M high rise condo in Irvine. Somehow that lead him to believe I'm slumming it. Not trying to brag, just telling you, if you're gonna compare living in your condo which you own to living to my condo which I rent then you should compare apples to apples.
I do have renter's insurance and it costs me $200/year!! That's compared to the building HOA which is over $1000/mo (includes a valet, cable, Internet, phone ... but still super high)
I sold my condo in part because I made a ton of money on it (100% profit) but in part because I was sick of a bunch of old cantankerous retirees (HOA board) telling me what I can or can't do. They would routinely send me BS bills for trash pickup I never caused and I had to fight it.
Also, if you're gonna make random uninformed claims try to back it up with something. as I said I own rental property and I have to say CA is the best state for renters. We have sooo many rights here it's incredible. You can basically not pay your rent and it would take your landlord 6 months to kick you if you're an a'hole and you know what you're doing.
My plan is to buy again Next Oct (08) when the market levels out. I believe the same $1.4M condo will be around $800K by then due to over building in the area. |
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refi
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| 10/01/2007 2:05 PM |
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| i just refinanced my North Park condo on Illinois Street and someone said I should post the results here. It's a 2 bedroom 1 bath that I bought a couple years ago for $371,000 when the market was obviously hotter. My appraisal for the refi came in at $386,000, and that's what they based my refi on. They said the new condo construction in the area and improvements like the weekly Farmer's Market, restored theater and several new shops and restaurants are keeping some of the condo prices in the area propped up more than one might expect in this market, especially for newer, high-quality condos. I'm in a small community, only 8 units. My mom said not to let it go to my head, that it's only worth what I can eventually sell it for when the time comes, but it does feel kinda cool to, at this moment in time, be sitting on $15,000 of instant equity. |
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Markmax33
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| 10/01/2007 2:08 PM |
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I cross referenced the Auction against the correct unit #s on the auction website:
www.redchomeauction.com/auction_details
This makes it easier to see price/sqft and number of bedrooms, etc.
Auction # Community Unit # Beds Baths Square Footage Auction Starting Price Previous Cost Auction Sold % Drop Price/SQFT
SD036 Details Esperanza 1 3 2.5 1,060 $159,000 $339,990 210 38.23 $198
SD037 Details Esperanza 2 2 2.5 1,060 $169,000 $354,990 240 32.39 $226
SD038 Details Esperanza 6 3 2.5 1,060 $159,000 $309,990 215 30.64 $203
SD057 Details Esperanza 7 3 2.5 1,060 $149,000 $289,990 215 25.86 $203
SD039 Details Esperanza 9 3 2.5 1,060 $159,000 $309,990 215 30.64 $203
SD040 Details Esperanza 10 3 2.5 1,060 $149,000 $299,990 100.00 $0
SD041 Details Esperanza 11 3 2.5 1,060 $159,000 $314,990 215 31.74 $203
SD042 Details Esperanza 12 3 2.5 1,060 $159,000 $314,990 210 33.33 $198
SD043 Details Esperanza 14 3 2.5 1,060 $159,000 $314,990 220 30.16 $208
SD044 Details Esperanza 15 3 2.5 1,060 $159,000 $314,990 230 26.98 $217
SD045 Details Esperanza 16 3 2.5 1,060 $159,000 $304,990 213 30.16 $201
SD046 Details Esperanza 17 3 2.5 1,060 $139,000 $331,990 215 35.24 $203
SD047 Details Esperanza 18 3 2.5 1,060 $149,000 $299,990 210 30.00 $198
SD048 Details Esperanza 19 3 2.5 1,060 $149,000 $289,990 210 27.58 $198
SD049 Details Esperanza 20 3 2.5 1,060 $159,000 $309,990 213 31.29 $201
SD050 Details Esperanza 21 3 2.5 1,060 $159,000 $309,990 213 31.29 $201
SD051 Details Esperanza 23 3 2.5 1,060 $149,000 $299,990 215 28.33 $203
SD052 Details Esperanza 24 3 2.5 1,060 $149,000 $289,990 215 25.86 $203
SD053 Details Esperanza 26 3 2.5 1,060 $155,000 $299,990 300 (0.00) $283
SD054 Details Esperanza 27 3 2.5 1,060 $149,000 $299,990 100.00 $0
SD055 Details Esperanza 28 3 2.5 1,060 $149,000 $289,990 248 14.48 $234
SD056 Details Esperanza 29 3 2.5 1,060 $149,000 $289,990 213 26.55 $201
SD002 Details La Boheme 1106 1 1 795 $149,000 $319,990 213000 33.44 $268
SD014 Details La Boheme 1127 2 2 1,040 $205,000 $419,990 313000 25.47 $301
SD011 Details La Boheme 1129 2 2 1,023 $209,000 $439,990 310000 29.54 $303
SD029 Details La Boheme 1135 2 2 1,361 $239,000 $519,990 385000 25.96 $283
SD004 Details La Boheme 1136 1 1 886 $169,000 $349,990 250000 28.57 $282
SD005 Details La Boheme 1202 2 2 1,097 $199,000 $424,990 212000 50.12 $193
SD018 Details La Boheme 1213 2 2 1,472 $239,000 $539,900 365000 32.39 $248
SD015 Details La Boheme 1227 2 2 1,040 $205,000 $429,990 313000 27.21 $301
SD007 Details La Boheme 1228 2 2 1,097 $199,000 $449,990 313000 30.44 $285
SD012 Details La Boheme 1229 2 2 1,023 $219,000 $449,990 310000 31.11 $303
SD008 Details La Boheme 1235 2 2 1,097 $199,000 $449,990 310000 31.11 $283
SD016 Details La Boheme 1305 2 2 1,040 $219,000 $439,990 320000 27.27 $308
SD003 Details La Boheme 1313 1 1 795 $149,000 $329,990 225000 31.82 $283
SD017 Details La Boheme 1320 1 1 827 $165,000 $389,990 100.00 $0
SD001 Details La Boheme 1326 1 1 694 $149,000 $309,990 220000 29.03 $317
SD013 Details La Boheme 1329 2 2 1,023 $219,000 $459,990 313000 31.96 $306
SD034 Details La Boheme 1404 2 2 1,148 $249,000 $546,900 375000 31.43 $327
SD019 Details La Boheme 1408 1 1 921 $169,000 $389,990 300000 23.07 $326
SD020 Details La Boheme 1411 1 1 921 $169,000 $392,900 275000 30.01 $299
SD021 Details La Boheme 1413 1 1 921 $169,000 $389,900 225000 42.29 $244
SD022 Details La Boheme 1419 1 1 921 $169,000 $399,900 258000 35.48 $280
SD023 Details La Boheme 1421 1 1 921 $169,000 $399,900 258000 35.48 $280
SD024 Details La Boheme 1424 1 1 921 $169,000 $399,900 285000 28.73 $309
SD035 Details La Boheme 1430 2 2 1,148 $249,000 $549,900 365000 33.62 $318
SD025 Details La Boheme 1432 1 1 921 $169,000 $399,900 255000 36.23 $277
SD010 Details La Boheme 2101 2 2 985 $209,000 $409,990 295000 28.05 $299
SD031 Details La Boheme 2210 2 2 1,022 $205,000 $439,990 320000 27.27 $313
SD030 Details La Boheme 2212 2 2 1,123 $205,000 $419,990 315000 25.00 $280
SD032 Details La Boheme 2214 2 2 1,022 $209,000 $443,990 305000 31.30 $298
SD009 Details La Boheme 2222 2 2 1,097 $189,000 $419,990 275000 34.52 $251
SD033 Details La Boheme 2320 2 2 1,022 $209,000 $449,990 320000 28.89 $313
SD026 Details La Boheme 2406 1 1 921 $169,000 $399,900 260000 34.98 $282
Average $/SQFT $263
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TREZ63
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| 10/01/2007 2:16 PM |
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Posted By n/a on 10/01/2007 2:05 PM
i just refinanced my North Park condo on Illinois Street and someone said I should post the results here. It's a 2 bedroom 1 bath that I bought a couple years ago for $371,000 when the market was obviously hotter. My appraisal for the refi came in at $386,000, and that's what they based my refi on. They said the new condo construction in the area and improvements like the weekly Farmer's Market, restored theater and several new shops and restaurants are keeping some of the condo prices in the area propped up more than one might expect in this market, especially for newer, high-quality condos. I'm in a small community, only 8 units. My mom said not to let it go to my head, that it's only worth what I can eventually sell it for when the time comes, but it does feel kinda cool to, at this moment in time, be sitting on $15,000 of instant equity.
Forgive me for rolling my proverbial eyes at you for saying that. In this market, if you wanted to sell, you'd have to offer a minimum of 5% comm to agents. Not including closing costs or anything other than that. You'd be out $19300 based on your appraisal. So you've lost $4300 not gained $15K. Your momma didn't raise no fool.
And btw, appraisals don't mean much unless you have a buyer willing to pay you the appraised value. |
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Anonymous
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| 10/01/2007 2:20 PM |
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Refi, $15,000 instant equity?!!! haha... are you counting the ownership premium you paid for all those years.
Had you rented for the same amount of Interest ONLY, Tax, Insurance, and HOA, you would have lived in a much nicer place and have more than $15,000 in the bank -- guaranteed. Now all you have is the feeling of equity.
Did you count the transaction costs of the original finance and refi? What about the cost of selling if you decide to do so? I bet if you sell now, you'll have to bring money to escrow.
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Anonymous
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| 10/01/2007 2:29 PM |
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There are several big losses on Illinois. The condos are selling below 2004 prices.
Your appraiser is a shill who gave your a nice appraisal so you could refinance. He got his fee and your loan broker got to collect a fat commission check (all at your expense since you're paying for it in the cost of your loan) I were you, I'd be both happy and a little embarrassed about the refi and I would keep it on the DL.
This building's orginal conversion purchaser are now all under water.
3939_Illinois_St_3B_San_Diego_CA_92104
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TREZ63
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| 10/01/2007 2:32 PM |
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Exactly!
People like this make me feel so smart. I can't even think of a scenario in which this guy is going to have any equity in his home over the next 10 years.
What's crazy and no one seems to be talking about, is that the US dollar is valued very low (less than Canadian as of last week) which is artificially keeping home prices somewhat level. It has lost around 20% of it's value in the past 3 years though, so you can just go ahead and assume the "equity" in your home is actually worth 20% less than you think it is. |
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Markmax33
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| 10/01/2007 2:41 PM |
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FYI,
Why would you buy right now when prices are dropping 10% per year? If he pays 2500 in rent on a place that costs 500k and it drops 10%, he saved 20k!! Don't you realize the reported prices are really inflated because they dont take in upgrades and incentives? |
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Markmax33
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| 10/01/2007 2:41 PM |
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FYI,
Why would you buy right now when prices are dropping 10% per year? If he pays 2500 in rent on a place that costs 500k and it drops 10%, he saved 20k!! Don't you realize the reported prices are really inflated because they dont take in upgrades and incentives? |
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refi
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| 10/01/2007 2:49 PM |
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| Well all I know is that since my refi now my monthly payments are way lower, I got into a good 30-year fixed and am paying down the principle so I'm set to ride out this decline until things start looking up again. |
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TREZ63
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| 10/01/2007 2:52 PM |
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| You did the right this with the Refi and you're lucky you did it when you did. |
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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| 10/01/2007 3:01 PM |
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Refi, good for you that your payments are lower. But...
1) How can a fixed mortgage provide lower monthly payments than an adjustable. It's normally they other way around.
2) It sounds like you weren't paying down principal before. But you are now. How can paying down principal result in lower payments?
I'm really at a loss here....
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refi
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| 10/01/2007 3:03 PM |
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| those are nice enough units, but some of them are stuck in the rear of their buildings, and they're way smaller than mine. |
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