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cubbie1
Posts:56
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| 08/22/2008 11:05 AM |
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| So JP, what's your point? Is this fishy or just a sound legal move to protect his credit rating. Does it matter? I appreciate your thoughts. |
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jpinpb
Posts:1476
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| 08/22/2008 11:16 AM |
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| Armstrong has a reputation in PB and if I were the company, I certainly wouldn't want to protect my reputation, as anyone in business would. I just noticed that there are a lot of properties now in the names of LLC, like the street address, LLC. I'm no business or finance major. Just posting information I acquired. Deduce what you will from it. All I can do is speculate. Haven't had a chance to go down to county or fictitious business names division to find out who they have been "sold" to. But if a company starts getting NODs or foreclosures and credit becomes damaged, then lending could be difficult, no? But if each complex is in another name, well, that would be a way to preserve credit, I imagine. Just a sign of times, not that we needed more signs. What does it mean? People taking precautions during hard times, anticipating more trouble? |
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sleepybear
Posts:116
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| 08/22/2008 11:25 AM |
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| Many RE LLCs are formed when a developer/owner wants to solicit investors (to reduce own equity in the project or because more funding is needed or etc.) but retain management control over the property. There is typically nothing unusual or problematic about it. Everything would be spelled out in the incorporation and solicitation documents. |
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jpinpb
Posts:1476
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| 08/22/2008 11:31 AM |
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| So if there is some financial issues, a developer will seek out other investors and form an LLC. I understand. Thanks, sleepy. |
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cubbie1
Posts:56
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| 08/22/2008 11:32 AM |
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| Sleepy I think you are right. And that is case with Brighton. It's an investor. JP thanks for your thoughts. |
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cubbie1
Posts:56
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| 08/22/2008 11:34 AM |
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| I dont think it means Financial issues they just want to get some of this off their books. I bought a model home while they were still constructing the neighborhood and did a leaseback to them until neighborhood was done. They did not have financial issues. |
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sleepybear
Posts:116
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| 08/22/2008 11:58 AM |
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| "Financial issues" might play a role in forming an LLC for an existing property, which these seem to be--from the postings here. However, it is also not ununsual for a developer who is not a large corporation to form an LLC at the start of a new project as a way of raising funds to complement a construction loan. |
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jpinpb
Posts:1476
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| 08/22/2008 11:58 AM |
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| Maybe financial issues is too harsh. If I had the money, why get investors when I can make 100% of the profit. |
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cubbie1
Posts:56
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| 08/22/2008 12:26 PM |
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| For same reason you would. Because overall market is a little 'tough'. It is a confirmation that times are tough for builders. No major revelation there. And if you have alot of projects during tough times you keep less of the profit than you normally would and move on. I'm sure he didnt lose on these just didnt make as much. So I think we are saying same thing and just the degree of the financial issue that caused him to sell. He's a smart builder and knows how to contain risk. |
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jpinpb
Posts:1476
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| 08/22/2008 12:32 PM |
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| Yes, true. As I said, didn't need more signs. It is confirmation and no revelation. He's being more prudent and that is smart. It still shows weakness even on the coast, nontheless, at least I think so. |
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cubbie1
Posts:56
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| 08/22/2008 12:39 PM |
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| His Gresham development just went pending 2 days ago. His investor held the line on prices there I know...Cause I dabbled an offer there on that one. Oliver, which isnt his, is not into lowball offers either. By lowball I dont mean real low either, I mean just over a million. They feel confident..so far |
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jpinpb
Posts:1476
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| 08/22/2008 12:42 PM |
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| I hope at least in the spring/summer he's able to make some sales. PB attracts tourists and summer is an excellent time to sell. If he can't sell in the summer, then there would be some panic happening. |
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cubbie1
Posts:56
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| 08/22/2008 12:51 PM |
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| It's an interesting game to be sure seeing who blinks first. We all know that at some point a great area like you have in PB, near the coast will come back. And so far, hasnt been hit nearly as hard. No one knows. Time will tell. If you do try and buy now its more cause you love the property, the location and that its more a quality of life decision then purely a financial one. Kind of like that golf course membership you buy. It make no financial sense no matter how you look at it. If any area comes back or stablizes its yours there and not a Florida or other area that is extremely overbuilt. No hurricanes either... |
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jpinpb
Posts:1476
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| 08/22/2008 12:55 PM |
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Meanwhile, the LLC that "bought" Grand is selling the units:
2025 for 669k
2027 for 655k
2029 for 589k
2031 for 679k.
Total, 2.592 mil
Tough street to sell at that price. The Felspar condos are still for sale since 04/22/2008.
1271 for 718k
1269 for 759k
1275 for 788k
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cubbie1
Posts:56
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| 08/22/2008 12:58 PM |
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| Felspar ones are decent. Saw those too. Just a little to far from beach and back up to Garnet and the bar scene. |
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jpinpb
Posts:1476
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| 08/22/2008 1:06 PM |
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The Felspar location is as tough as living on Grand. I think priced too high for where they are IMHO.
They finally sold 2225 Felspar after 9 months and a NOD filed on it for considerably less. Originally listed 709k, sold for 577k. It closed April. And I don't think our lending markets have improved lately.
Anyway, regardless of what the LLC says, we know who's really selling it and we know there's a little distress happening. Profits will have to be reduced and prices adjusted lower to reflect the market, or it will be a long winter. |
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cubbie1
Posts:56
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| 08/22/2008 1:22 PM |
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| On the other side, 1121 Felspar, about same age, A little closer to beach and smaller and only a 2br is pending and will close for close to list price of 630k. I know 2 parties who bid on this one and failed with competitive offers in June. I thought they were crazy but you know what....they got what they wanted. |
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jpinpb
Posts:1476
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| 08/22/2008 1:32 PM |
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| I can't find 1121 Felspar. Do you have a link to it? |
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cubbie1
Posts:56
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| 08/22/2008 1:38 PM |
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| http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-080039296-1121_Felspar_San_Diego_Ca_92109 |
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jpinpb
Posts:1476
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| 08/22/2008 1:43 PM |
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| Ah, yes. Those. I laugh when I hear that people are still buying places like this at these prices. But power to them. If they really want it, then good for them. |
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